Hojung Audenaerde
Hojung, can you please share your background with us before yoga?
This moment. Here and now.
Let me please clarify: when I speak about yoga, I am speaking about the state of yoga which really can only be experienced and is very difficult to define or describe... it is a state of being and consciousness of unity and wholeness that can only be encountered in the present moment... this state of yoga is ever-present, but we have forgotten it and have become separate from it, and in a sense, it is what we are always trying to remember and be aware of and return to...
So, in this interview, when I speak about yoga, this is what I am referring to... this state of yoga, which encompasses, but is not to be confused with, the different limbs or aspects and practices which help us to cultivate and perhaps experience yoga, such as yama, niyama, asana, etc...
The here and now encapsulates the present moment, as well as the past and the future... so the here and now is always, in a sense, the state of yoga, if we can be fully conscious and aware of its totality...
I apologize for this small prelude, but I feel it is important for me to be clear about what I am speaking about when I speak about yoga...
So, to answer your question, I feel like my whole life, for as long as I can remember, I was quite aware of being in a state of non-yoga... and that feeling transpired because of my personal life history...
I was born in Taegu, South Korea and was adopted at 27 months to Belgian parents, who at the time were living in Rome, Italy with my older brother (also adopted from South Korea, although we are not biological siblings)... within that year of being adopted, we moved briefly to Belgium, before emigrating to the United States, where my father had a visiting professorship for 1 year at the University of Wisconsin-Madison... after that initial year, feeling that they had seen so little of the United States, my parents decided to try to stay longer, and that has more or less extended into the rest of their lives...
My father was an electrical engineer and academician, so growing up, we moved to various university towns across North America as my father climbed the academic ladder: mid-west, west coast, east coast... Madison was sort of a roosting point as we moved away and back to it several times during my youth... this constant transiency compounded by being part of a multi-cultural, multi-racial, immigrant family in the United States during the late 70s and 80s definitely influenced my perspective and perception of life, and my place in it... my whole life I felt rather displaced and very, very early on I was pondering questions, such as “Who am I? Where do I come from? How did I get here? Why do I exist? What am I meant to be doing? What is the meaning of life? etc, etc...”
And obviously having been adopted, these questions not only originated from an innate existential curiosity, but also were answers that I sought on a very basic, material plane: “Who am I? Where do I come from? Who are my biological parents? What am I doing here? etc, etc...”
Also, you have to understand that no one had to tell me that I was adopted... I just knew... it was obvious... my brother and I looked so different from our European parents... and I, unlike many other adoptees, also had a little bit of information about my past, so I knew that my biological parents were alive and that I had actually been given up for adoption... which of course, allows for more questions to arise: “Why was I given up? What happened to my biological parents? Why didn’t they want me? Was there something wrong with me? Where are they now? etc, etc...”
So, I grew up feeling very, very fragmented... I was constantly being told by everyone around me how lucky I was and how I had been given this amazing second chance in life; how who knows what would have happened to me if I had stayed in Korea, but surely I would have lived a life of misery and poverty; and how grateful I should always be, because I had been saved from a bleak, unknown destiny... and as a child, of course, I was very impressionable... so I deified my parents... they were my saviours and I was going to do everything I could to be worthy of their love and be the model child of gratitude and distinction... so, I tried to excel at whatever I was exposed to: education, music, sports, arts, etc... I began school early and graduated high school early, starting university at 16; I played classical guitar; I was state level in swimming and national level in cross-country and track & field; and I had always been highly creative, always seeing life through my unique prism... but at the same time, I always, always felt this enormous void and emptiness and inexplicable loss, which I could never name nor speak about... I felt uneasy in my place in life and my role in it... most of my youth, I wanted to look like my parents, who are tall and blue-eyed, but mostly I justed wanted to look like everyone else around me and fit in... I wanted to look like I belonged... I wanted people to stop asking me where I was from... a very big divide started to manifest within me and I became acutely aware of the duality in life, as well as the impermanence... but this awareness did not give me solace, instead it caused suffering inside me... there was such a vast gulf between my internal world and my external appearance, between how I felt and how people expected me to feel, how I was and how I was perceived, the observed and the observer, the material and the immaterial, the visible and the invisible, the mundane and the transcendent... and because no one around could give me satisfactory answers, either through religion (I was raised Roman-Catholic) or through higher academic education or intellectualism, I started to seek it out through spirituality…
Growing up, for any child, can be difficult and confusing. Although, you felt the existential question, “Who am I?” very early on. Was it this question that led you to the physical practice of asana, of Ashtanga? Please walk us through what led you to the practice.
You're absolutely right... I think that most children go through various difficulties and incertitude and feel varying degrees of isolation, separation, fragmentation, etc... I definitely was not unusual in that way... it is a very human experience... Guruji often said that to be given a human birth is very precious and rare, and that resonated with it a certain kind of responsibility that we have in this lifetime... for me it has been both a responsibility and a gift, and led me to embark on the path of yoga, a path of Self-realization...
But let me backtrack a bit... it actually was quite some time before I made my way to the practice of Ashtanga Yoga and Guruji... and Ashtanga Yoga was not the beginning of my yoga journey...
So, even though my childhood may have been confusing and difficult at times, I was also in many ways blessed... my parents tried to do their best in our rather unique circumstances... and we were a very tight-knit and happy family... but, that all burst when my parents separated when I was about 11... the particulars of that are not so important, but it had a profound, long-reaching impact on all of us... as a family and as individuals... my father was now living in New York, and my mother, brother, and I had moved back to Madison...my mother proceeded to slide into a long depression, suffering immensely from the separation, and my brother started a path of addiction (now looking back on it, I feel like my parents' separation reignited the earlier traumas of our separations from our birth parents, our culture, and our nation)... we were slowly imploding and it was like observing a disaster in slow-motion... I just tried to keep my head down and focus on my studies, sports, and other extra-curricular activities and did my best to try to make everyone happy... and even though my parents separated, my father kept contact with us (but you have to remember it was the mid-80s, before any of the contemporary means of communication and connection existed), and he sometimes even came and spent stretches of time with all of us, which also added confusion to whether my parents were actually separated or together (my parents never actually legally divorced and after 15 years of separation got back together!)... and to add to the complexity of it all, my father was my running coach until I went to high school, which is never an easy relationship... my parents were highly disciplined and extremely demanding for my brother and I to be the best at everything... as my brother retreated more and more into himself, distancing himself emotionally and otherwise from our family, my parents' hopes and dreams were pinned on me and it was an enormous amount of pressure... when I was 16, I went abroad for the summer to study Italian in Italy, and that change of environment was so liberating... after that summer, I went home, graduated high school early, and moved out of my mother's house onto the university campus…
I was 16, starting university, had no clue what I wanted to study, and actually the idea of having to choose something that I wanted to do for the rest of my life, petrified me... I was definitely lost and in need of guidance... I also had actually quit running competitively at this time, realizing that that was my father's dream and not mine... (I loved the physical act of running and the feeling it gave me, but competition seemed a bit ridiculous to me... often times in the final stretch, I would find myself neck-to-neck with someone for the win, and the thought would come to me of the absurdity of it all and “who cares who wins?” and I would pull back, letting the other person win, much to the horror, bewilderment, and rage of my father)... I would say that I was going through my first conscious identity crisis... so, I was definitely searching, but I did not know for what... and because I had most of my basic material needs covered, I became increasingly aware that my emptiness was far vaster, and was really one of spiritual bereftness (although I would not have defined it as such at the time)...
During that first semester at university, a flyer at my local co-op kept catching my eye: individual sessions for Phoenix Rising Yoga Therapy... I had never heard of yoga, but it sounded fascinating as a tool for self-discovery and healing... I started with a woman, named Anita, and in one of my early sessions with her, perhaps even the first one, I had an extremely intense experience in ustrasana... it felt like everything that I had been holding inside came exploding out from my sternum and solar plexus... and I sobbed hysterically for what seemed like an eternity... I couldn't explain it... I had never been emotional or a cryer, and actually most people described me as being extremely aloof and stoic... but something had definitely been released... it was a mystery and I was definitely surprised and intrigued (as I think she was!)... I continued some sessions with her and attended some self-healing, yoga-based workshops with her and her brother... but because I was young and had very little financial resources, at her recommendation I started attending her hatha yoga classes regularly...
I would say that through this process and various life events, my dis-ease with myself and with life in general, culminated with me trying to take my own life when I was 18... this is something that I don't speak about often, and I share it only because suicide is exceedingly prevalent in the adoptee community, but obviously not limited to it... suicide is a very real problem in society and one that is rarely spoken of... the details of my attempt are not that important, but it exemplifies the hopelessness and the tenuous link to life that I felt at that time and throughout my life (this was the 2nd of the 3 comas that I have been in)... and perhaps even stranger, was that afterwards, I nor anyone around me really talked about it... it just happened and then I went back to classes and work like nothing had happened...
But obviously something did, and after that semester, I dropped out of university and went to travel around Europe for 7 months, seeking that freedom and carefreeness I had felt when I had studied in Italy a couple years before... I visited relatives in Belgium and Italy and met up with friends in France, England, and Spain... and that was the first time I was in Barcelona (which is where I now reside), living there that pre-Olympics summer of 1992… afterwards, I returned to Madison, reentered university, and after a year of still feeling acutely displaced, I moved to New York City at the suggestion of a friend, who was living there...
Throughout all those years, I continued to regularly attend hatha yoga asana classes, but it was really in NYC, that my yoga path started to manifest... I still had not found a specific tradition or lineage that resonated with me, and for those first few years, I experimented with the wide array of styles that was on offer: Iyengar, Integral, Sivananda, and lastly Jivamukti... at one point, I wanted to deepen my understanding of yoga, beyond what I was experiencing in the asana classes, so I did the Sivananda teacher training course, which at the time was the most immersive and comprehensive yoga experience, including asana, pranayama, chanting, meditation, kriyas, and was very bhakti-based... I also was beginning to contemplate a more ascetic lifestyle... I spent 5 weeks at their ashram in Nassau, Bahamas, which was very enlightening, but also clarified to me at the time that I was not yet ready for a renunciate or ashram life... I returned to NYC and continued to practice at Jivamukti, and attended classes around the city on Ayurveda, yoga philosophy, meditation, and other healing practices... at Jivamukti, Sharon and David and their teachings had an enormous influence on me, and they had 3 main gurus, one of whom was Guruji (Sri K. Pattabhi Jois)... in early 1999, they ran a weekend Introduction to Mysore-style Ashtanga Yoga workshop, including an asana demonstration, which affected me profoundly... I can still remember sitting in that room, watching the asanas unfold with just the sound of the breath and nothing else... and my internal silence was deafening to me, and inexplicably, I was actually moved to tears... from the very first Mysore-style class, I knew I had found my practice, and I signed up immediately for their program... I already had had a daily asana practice for years, so making the transition was not difficult... my first Ashtanga Yoga teacher was Guy Donahaye, and after about 4 months, he told me that he was going to go to Mysore, India to practice with his teacher, Guruji, and that he was going to get married there and that Guruji was also going to officiate his wedding ceremony... and he said to me: “You should come! You're the kind of student who should go practice with Guruji!” I had no idea what he meant by that, and India had been floating around the back of my mind, but it seemed a bit preposterous to me at the time... anyway, I went home that night and slept on it, and the next morning, I bicycled to practice, and said “OK, what do I do?” So, I was advised to write a letter to Guruji (email did not exist yet) and not to expect a response, and to book a flight and just go... and so that's what I did... Guy left about a month before me, and he recommended me to go practice with Eddie Stern, which is also what I did... and then in September 1999, I went to Mysore... and stayed 8 months...
What happened when you arrived at Guruji’s doorstep?
Well, first of all, India was very different back then, as was Mysore, as was the world, in general... there was no social media, no internet, no email, no mobile phones, etc... I went to India, really knowing very little about Guruji and Mysore, so I had no expectations nor projections... gratefully Guy told me he'd arrange a car to pick me up from the airport and a room for the first couple nights... I landed in Bangalore in the middle of the night, as almost all international flights did at that time... and stepping off the plane, we walked to the baggage claim... and that first hit of hot, humid air and its earthy, pungent scent seemed very, very familiar to me... I felt really from that first instant like I had come home in some way... although that vanished quickly, as I walked out of the airport, confronted by an incredible mass of people staring intently at everyone who exited the arrivals doors... but luckily among them, Raghu was standing there with my name on a piece of paper, and off we went hurtling down that harrowing, potholed, bumpy road to Mysore in his old, white Ambassador, and I have to admit, there were several times that I wondered if I would even make it to Mysore alive... and later in a pre-dawn moment, looking blearily in a jet-lagged stupor at my face in the mirror under the flickering fluorescent light of my sparse room at the Rajmahal Deluxe Lodge (the only thing deluxe about it was its name), I thought to myself: “Oh my god, what am I doing?”
The next day, I made my way over to the shala in Lakshmipuram at conference time (about 4pm) and met Guy, who introduced me to Guruji... I didn't have any major first impressions of Guruji, except that he was very welcoming (probably because Guy had introduced me), and after we all sat with him for awhile in the foyer of his house, I accompanied him upstairs to his little office which was filled with books and ledgers and papers, and he inquired about my details: name, family name, mother's name, country of birth, age, all of which he methodically wrote down phonetically in Kannada in a large ledger... then he asked for my stack of rupees, and proceeded to meticulously count that all out, note by note... and finally he told me my practice time for the following morning...
Guy and Eddie had both prepped me a bit about what to expect asana practice-wise... I had already finished the full primary series, although I was not standing up from urdhva dhanurasana, and I definitely was lacking in strength, in general... so, they had both told me to just do my practice, and to not be surprised if Guruji stopped me before finishing the full series, and if he did, to stop immediately, and do my back-bending and then my finishing postures... so I practiced most of that first practice, expecting Guruji to stop me, but he didn't, and then going upstairs to do my finishing postures, I was quite relieved it was over, as I had been quite nervous the whole time... everything was so new, there was quite a long wait to get into the room, as only 12 people could practice at a time, and I think it was the first time that the numbers had swelled to that amount (maybe around 50 of us), and the energy of that small space was so intense... as we waited on the stairs, we could hear the breathing coming from the room below, and Guruji sometimes shouting something, and then people would walk up the stairs past us to go up and do their finishing postures, and they were dripping with sweat, looking like they had been physically wrung-out... the energy was palpable and vibrating... it was very alive!
And I think that was what struck me most about Guruji... he was very alive! Here was a man who was 84 years old with an immense energy field that I had never witnessed before... it was incredible! And I felt like that if these were the fruits of practice and yoga, then I wanted to definitely learn more... up until that point in my life, I had met very few people, who just in their presence and being, were inspiring... and Guruji was definitely inspiring!
After that first practice, I started looking for a flat to stay in, and eventually found one right in front of Gaby's, right around the corner of the shala... I knew I was staying for a long time, so I convinced the owner to rent it to me for a year, not knowing then that it would be my Mysore home until the shala shifted over to Gokulam in 2003... I loved Mysore, I loved the practice there, I loved Guruji and Sharath... really it's hard to explain the familiarity and beauty of it... but it was a very sweet time... everyone seemed so sincere and earnest about their practice and their yoga path, and only a few people there were teachers at the time... Tim Miller was there, as was Peter Sanson, and Rolf Naujokat, and some other long-time practitioners, and even though I had no idea who they were, they were all very open, kind, and grounded... we were a really tight-knit community back then... lots of pot-luck lunches and sharing of experiences of meditation, philosophy, Ayurveda, nutrition, Sanskrit, Vedic astrology, etc... and everything was also on offer to learn there, and I just soaked it all up in those 8 months... I made some amazing friendships and bonds during that trip, and it's really the first time in my life that I felt I genuinely belonged... none of us practitioners were from there and we were from everywhere... there was a large crew from NYC and California, as well as Londoners, Kiwis (New Zealand), Australians, and a smattering of other Europeans and North Americans...
In those days, we also met for conference daily in the afternoons, and it was another way for us all to come together to be with Guruji (someone had told me that that had started initially after Amma-ji [Guruji's wife] had passed away in order to accompany him in his grieving process)... we would just sit with Guruji in the foyer of his house, while he read the newspaper and whatever mail had arrived that day... sometimes someone would ask him a question or engage him in some conversation... I remember vividly those first couple months with the onset of the east coast monsoons and typhoons, while we would be sitting there in the afternoons, these deluges of water would come falling from the sky, almost like clockwork daily (I really haven't seen the same weather patterns there since then)... the rain would have stopped by the time we were leaving, and as we stepped out, the air felt fresh and cleansed... the energy in that little room shifted a lot in those conferences, depending on who would be there, what would be asked, and even when nothing was asked, there was often times this nervous, impatient, expectant energy in the room sort of like: “Come on... let's have something HAPPEN already!!!” But Guruji was very content, just reading his newspaper, quite oblivious to that almost “hunger” for him to do something or say something to enlighten us all about yoga (of course, that is what it felt like to me at the time, other people may have perceived it quite differently)... as I was very new to the practice and quite shy, I was just happy to sit there and observe everything... I had no burning questions that I wanted to voice out loud...
Asana practice-wise, I feel that quite early on, Sharath sort of took me under his wing... in those days, everyone practiced primary series for the first month (unless Guruji knew your practice previously), and after my first month, Guruji and Sharath started to work with me on my back-bends... back then, they would support you first by taking your head all the way to the floor, with the arms crossed over the chest, and holding there for 5 breaths, before coming up and doing the half back-bends and then finally coming into the last urdhva dhanurasana, again holding for 5 breaths... and then coming up, which at the time, if Guruji was back-bending you (and you were a woman), you received a big hug! Through the asana practice, besides becoming very aware of my breath and its patterns, I also became very conscious of my fears... before when I had been practicing Sivananda Yoga, because sirsasana comes very early in their asana sequence, I noticed that I had incredible fear around inversions... it took me a very long time to be able to do sirsasana comfortably and steadily... and standing up from urdhva dhanurasana, it was the same... I felt disorientated upside-down and couldn't work out how to connect my breath to stand up... after about 3 months, Sharath said to me: “ You have to be able to stand up from urdhva dhanurasana by yourself before you can start 2nd series...” so, for the next 5 months, I continued to try to stand up, but it was so elusive to me...
During this trip, I also had to make visa run, because I had a 1 year visa, but with a 180 day limit for each entry, so I went to Sri Lanka for 2 weeks and sat my first Vipassana meditation course... that was also the beauty of Mysore, not only were there so many opportunities to learn so many things related to yoga, there was also a lot of time to read, to be creative, to discover... the rhythm and pace of life was so different than NYC, and I had ample time to be alone and to cultivate and deepen my sitting practice, which had begun years earlier through the Sivananda practice...
After that first trip, I went back to NYC, knowing that I had to return to Mysore as soon as I could... I tried to earn as much money as possible by working various jobs... I continued to practice with Eddie and I also started an apprenticeship with Guy... after 6 months, I was ready to go back to Mysore and stayed 9 months...
That second trip, there were very few people there when I arrived, maybe a handful of us, which was such a blessing... after the first month of practice with Sharath saying to me daily “Staaaaand uppp!” in his particular way, I finally managed to stand up from urdhva dhanurasana (probably about a full year after Sharath had put that into my consciousness)... and that I feel like was a turning point, because then Guruji really started engaging with me in my practice, teaching me each asana of 2nd series, one by one... because only 12 of us could practice at a time, there were a lot more adjustments and help with the asanas and individual attention... and it did seem that Guruji was teaching each person differently, according to what he was seeing in the individual... for example Guruji split me at bakasana B, which is a very, very early split... and as I mentioned before, I was never very strong... actually strength was my weakness... so propelled by my ego and my attachment to having a long practice, I confronted Guruji about that in front of his office, claiming that I needed to have a long practice to build up my strength... and he looked me straight in the eyes and said: “You! Short practice, strength coming!” So, I went from having a long practice, to an ultra-short one, although he taught me bharadvajasana, ardha matsyendrasana, and eka pada sirsasana in quite rapid succession (over a couple months)... he didn't seem to mind that I could not jump cleanly into bakasana B and often would stand at the front of my mat and catch me when I jumped and set me lightly on my arms...
So, in those 9 months, my asana practice changed quite radically, and my relationship with Guruji and Sharath deepened... again it was quite a blissful trip, although there were definitely challenges, but those challenges really had to do with the mind... I started to become conscious that any of the “suffering” I had in that time with the practice or Mysore or in life, was of the mind: if I expected something different than what reality in the present moment was presenting to me, if I had any doubts in regards to the teachings or the methodology or about Guruji and Sharath, and also if I got into the “comparison game”, wondering why I wasn't progressing as someone else was or why I was being taught differently and slower, etc... and these were all incredibly rich opportunities to observe my mind and its patterns and tendencies toward aversions and attractions, and also to go deeper into self-enquiry... everything that Guruji was teaching through the practice about breath, drishti, and bandhas, was seeping into the whole of life... my drishti was turning more and more inward...
I would say at this point in my life, I no longer felt lost... I knew that I wanted to spend as much time as possible in Mysore, practicing with Guruji and Sharath and learning about yoga... I made that my intention and luckily the universe aligned itself with that... I returned to NYC in the spring of 2001 and from then until 2007, I was able to practice in Mysore every year for 6 months... and so many life-changing events were to happen in those years…
Please continue...
While I had been in Mysore in 2000 - 2001, Eddie had moved his shala from Broadway to Broome Street, and when I returned to NYC, he was actually away and Peter Sanson was teaching in his stead... I had met and spent a little time with Pete on both of my previous Mysore trips, and one day we met for lunch and he asked me why I wasn't practicing at Eddie's... so I told him that I was doing an apprenticeship with Guy and felt it best to practice with him too, and also I was coming out of a relationship and was very emotionally vulnerable and a bit nervous to go back to Eddie's, because I heard that since he moved, he had a massive number of students, and I just needed something familiar and more quiet... and I actually burst into tears telling him this... Pete told me that Eddie had built this beautiful Ganesh Temple in his shala and that it was very special and that I should come down there after the morning class, when it was quiet, because I might find some healing... so the next day, I went with some flowers for Ganesha, and Eddie had created this amazingly beautiful space... Pete was just finishing teaching, and there were a few students still in their finishing postures, and he motioned to me to go inside the temple... I stepped in, and I immediately fell to my knees and started sobbing... again, I couldn't explain this immense grief that came pouring out of me... it just did... I was in there for a very long time, just crying and crying... when I came out, everyone was already gone, except for Pete and he asked: “Do you feel better now?” and I did... I felt both cleansed, and exhausted, but also a bit bewildered... he said to me: “I want to teach you something to give you strength”, and he told me to meet him the next day at that same time... so daily for the following month, he slowly taught me the Aditya Hrdayam, a powerful prayer from the Ramayana... it consists of 31 slokas, and Pete taught me 1 sloka each day in the traditional Indian method of call and response (chanting 1 word, and me repeating it, until my pronunciation and intonation were completely correct)... he had learned it from his Sanskrit teacher in India, who by then had passed away, and advised me to memorize it and chant it at least 3 times every day to cultivate inner strength and to concentrate the mind...
During that summer, a very strong, sentimental relationship formed between us... I asked Guy for his blessing to practice with Pete, even though I wanted to continue my apprenticeship with him, which he kindly gave me... and after Eddie came back, Pete decided to stay on a bit longer, because Guruji was going to come to NYC soon to teach a month-long workshop and to formally bless and inaugurate Eddie's Ganesh Temple... it was a very buoyant and sweet time, and none of us could have imagined all that was to come to pass with September 11... that whole time is seared so clearly in my memory, but what really stands out was Guruji's serenity and steadfastness and that even amidst all the chaos and horror he wanted to stay and continue teaching, because more than ever people needed the practice and yoga... again he was such an inspiring example! To say the least, it was a very powerful time and the practice, the Ashtanga community, Guruji, Sharath, Saraswati and their whole family, Eddie and Jocelyne, and Pete were such beautiful anchors and beacons during those very uncertain, fearful times... we all spent a lot of time together... later Guruji, along with some Indian Brahmin Pujaris who had flown in from Australia, formally inaugurated and blessed Eddie's Ganesh Temple and we prayed for those souls who had passed; we prayed for compassion for everyone, including those who were involved in the attacks; we prayed for understanding and transformation; we prayed for world-wide healing... after the month-long workshop ended, Guruji gave a small talk at the Puck Building and I remember so clearly him telling all of us: “Don't waste your life!”... it is something that still resonates with me and that I always contemplate and continues to give me direction in my life...
Pete and I left NYC shortly after Guruji left to go practice with him in Mysore, but we stopped off first in Mumbai, to go visit Ramesh Balsekar, an Advaita Vedanta teacher and a direct disciple of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, who held small satsangs in his home... his teachings and the encounters we had with him then and in the following years, impacted and influenced me greatly in the way I started to perceive and think of consciousness and being...
That same year a lot of physical pain started to arise in my body and began to affect my asana practice... just before we had left NYC, I had injured my right knee (outside of the asana practice), tearing some ligaments, and I couldn't straighten or bend my leg properly, let alone even walk without a limp... so I went back to being a complete beginner, accommodating my injury, through my asana practice, starting with Surya Namaskara A, and then when that was comfortable and pain-free, going on to Surya Namaskara B, and so on, building my practice up slowly again, never stopping the asana practice, but also practicing in a way that had integrity and allowed the healing to occur in my physical pain body, which was manifesting mostly in my knees... first my right and then my left... it was probably a 5 year process in total... and taught me so much about how to listen to my pain and navigate through it... Guruji, Sharath, and Pete guided me a lot through that process...
The teachings in Mysore were also going to go through some major changes on the external level... the shala moved from Lakshmipuram to Gokulam in 2003, a major transformation in physical space! Instead of 12 people practicing at a time, now 70 – 80 people could practice at at time! I was in the midst of this whole knee process and healing my physical pain body, and again was feeling quite vulnerable and fragile, and dreading very much the reality of practicing with that many people... when in Mysore we had had such a small, intimate practice space, and when away Pete and I always practiced together on our own... I spoke to Sharath about my concerns, and after some consideration (and with Guruji's blessing), he kindly invited me to come practice with him... before this shala move happened, Sharath had started teaching a very small group of students (who had started only with him and not practiced previously with Guruji)... and it was this class that I was to join once the shala in Gokulam opened... I was very grateful, and in those years of practicing with Sharath, I was again blessed to practice in a relatively small group and to receive a lot of guidance... although in hindsight, this was not the first time that I was practicing with only Sharath teaching... since my 1st Mysore trip, Guruji had always stopped teaching for 2 weeks in December to do all the necessary pujas to commemorate and honor Amma-ji’s passing, and during this time, Sharath always continued the teachings by himself in Gokulam, and we would all drive from Lakshmipuram to Gokulam to practice with him… in 2006, Sharath told me that I should get Guruji’s formal authorization to teach (I had already received Guruji’s verbal blessing in 2003), so he advised me to go back and practice in the main shala… which was fortuitous, because once again I was able to practice under Guruji’s attentive gaze, along with Sharath and Saraswati, until his passing in 2009...
I think it was after my 2nd trip to Mysore, that Guy and Eddie, and also Pete all told me that because I was spending such long trips in Mysore, Guruji and Sharath were my teachers, and that they would help me with whatever I had been taught, but that they would never give me any new asanas... looking back now, that was such a gift, because asana-wise I progressed really slowly... between 2000 and 2006 Guruji and Sharath taught me full intermediate, asana by asana... and then I was held on full intermediate for 7 years, which included 7 trips to Mysore... Magnolia is the only other person who has shared with me that she had this same experience (being held on full intermediate for 7 years), and we laughingly refer to it as our “desert years”! But those “desert years” were also so ripe with teachings, and for me, again, such incredible opportunities to observe my mind and ego... I learned patience, humility, acceptance, surrender, trust, faith... and they showed me fully where I needed to focus my attention and where I had to do more work internally in terms of my kleshas: such as attachment, aversion, ignorance, doubt, pride, jealousy, etc... which are among the mental poisons or afflictions that produce both immediate and long-term mental torment and dis-ease... in 2013, Sharath started teaching me 3rd series and I am sure that will also be a long, but very interesting journey, regardless how far I go asana-wise...
From 2001 until our separation in 2006, I traveled and taught with Pete internationally... and besides Guruji and Sharath, he has probably had the greatest influence on the way I teach... our separation and its complexities had a devastating effect on me, and the details are not that important, but the separation itself became an amazing vehicle for evolving, once I could overcome the initial heartbreak and suffering... it was a launching pad for everything that was still to come in terms of my own personal healing journey…
Even though I led a blessed life in many ways, my underlying dis-ease was always still there, and it was felt most acutely in times of separation and loss... throughout my life I always carried this inexplicable sense of grief, melancholy, despair, shame, secrecy, etc... I wanted to unravel this mystery of why my intimate relationships were so complex and never lasted, why my relationship to myself was so conflicted (manifesting in eating disorders when I was younger to my suicide attempt to low self-esteem), and why I could only fleetingly connect with this sense of liberation and union that the yoga path purports to be... and so I thought that maybe I had to go all the way back to the beginning of my life... my self-enquiry finally led me to investigate my earliest relationships and my earliest separations... in 2007 I began the search for my birth family to try to shed light on the first 27 months of my life and my family histories... I was hoping to find the key and some answers into “who I am” and more importantly “why I am the way I am”... and now not just on esoteric, spiritual, existential, philosophical levels, but in a very tangible, material way...
You’ve had these very clear spaces in your practice that when you were ready, a certain teacher appeared to help you through a sensitive period in your life. What does parampara mean to you and what is the value of it?
Yes, that is definitely true! So many people (known and unknown to me) have helped me along the way, guiding me and forming part of my consciousness and being...
When I was young, I used to be a voracious reader of nonfiction, primarily autobiographies and biographies, of people who were great catalysts of change in the transformation of societies and both the individual and collective human consciousness... these were all inspiring people who had undergone incredible hardships in life and had not only changed their own lives, but also helped others transform theirs, both individuals and societies, and sometimes even world-wide... for example: Harriet Tubman, Black Elk, Mahatma Gandhi, Helen Keller, Viktor Frankl, Rosa Parks, Nelson Mandela, Maya Angelou, Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Anne Frank, Muhammed Ali, etc, etc... these were all people who had gone from incredible darkness to light, helping others do the same...
I always was aware that I was in an unnameable darkness, and that I needed support and direction to give me meaning and purpose in life... and because I was raised Roman Catholic (although not fully practicing, as we never went to church; however I did attend Catholic school from 3rd to 8th grade), prayer has always been a part of my life... it was always quite difficult for me to completely relate to the Jesus Christ narrative in Catholicism, and to fully accept their theology; but it did instill in me a strong sense of universal spirituality and ingrained in me a dialogue with the divine, which still exists in me today, although it has definitely transformed and evolved immensely since then...
When I started the yoga path, most of my reading veered in the direction of the spiritual and philosophical, both ancient and modern, based in (but not limited to) Yoga, Hinduism, Buddhism, Advaita Vedanta, Ayurveda, etc... during the first 10 years of my yoga journey, before coming to Ashtanga Yoga, I was experimenting with many different traditions, styles, and practices... and a common saying that kept arising was: “when the student is ready, the teacher will appear”... and I feel that that is what happened to me... whenever I was ready to receive and integrate into my life whatever teaching or practice I needed, the teacher appeared... for me that has happened, primarily but not exclusively, through the Ashtanga Yoga lineage...
I think that we all know by now that the concept of parampara in India (both in Hinduism and Buddhism) is the unbroken thread of lineage and undiluted teachings from successive gurus to shishyas, requiring the respect, commitment, devotion and obedience of the disciple... so this, like everything, is a wonderful opportunity for reflection, contemplation, and practice... What exactly does that mean? Does it resonate with me? Do I want to be part of that? Can I practice and integrate all of those qualities: respect, commitment, devotion, and obedience into my being, my practice, and my life through mind, body, thought, speech, action, and spirit? So, depending on a person's individual mind, body, spirit; and their whole history, past and present; and the context of that history, social and cultural; any concept or teaching is going to be interpreted very differently... and I guess that is what I am trying to reveal by my long-winded answers... everything is inter-connected and has meaning... everything and everyone! And it is up to each individual to contemplate and find meaning in these different aspects from one’s own direct experience, and to make the conscious connections in order to integrate it and practice it in one’s external life and internal being… to finally come to the realization that there really is no separation and that everything is interrelated, and to make the journey from the individual mind to the universal consciousness... and ultimately as Guruji said: “to see God (the divine) everywhere.”
So, for me, parampara and the guru-shishya tradition have been invaluable... perhaps because I was born in an East-Asian culture (although not raised with those influences) which has a long tradition of similar philosophies and methodologies and spiritual practices and trainings, some of those qualities aforementioned: respect, commitment, devotion and obedience both towards the teachings and my teachers were quite innate to me... they were not difficult on a superficial level... but as anything, over time and as the relationships deepen, and one goes beyond that initial “love-struck” phase, it does become more difficult... because one comes to realize that all of our teachers are human and because of that they all have their own shortcomings, inconsistencies, idiosyncrasies, and are very much still in their own process and evolution... so for me, the guru-shishya tradition, both with Guruji then and now Sharath, has been the field upon which I have cultivated, nurtured, practiced, and deepened these qualities towards them, but WITHIN me: respect, commitment, devotion, obedience... all of which also encompasses: trust, faith, forgiveness, reconciliation, compassion, acceptance, surrender, gratitude, etc... and then from there it permeates into all my relationships: with myself and with everyone and everything else... and when this internal transformation and shift begins to happen, one can truly begin to see the divine everywhere... in everything and everyone... but it is a long, and sometimes difficult process and definitely a lifelong practice!
Because of my own historical paradigm and internal matrix, parampara and lineage have always had immense value to me on a personal level as well... up until recently, I have had no known biological lineage... and in my adoptive family, my father is an only child of only children parents (whom I never met)... and my mother, the youngest of five, had lost her father at 18; and because we emigrated to the USA, I only met her mother once, and one of her siblings... so I never had a greater sense of belonging or connectedness through family structures... I loved the fact that through yoga practice (and later Buddhism), I not only had a long spiritual lineage, but I also had community... I loved listening to Guruji's stories of his Guru, Sri T. Krishnamacharya, as well as to listen to Sharath, Guy, Eddie, Peter, and other long-time students speak of Guruji... they all spoke of their teachers with such devotion and respect... it was beautiful! And because I spent a lot of time in Mysore, in a sense Guruji's family became my family slowly, as they were so inclusive and allowed me to share in many of their celebrations and family's rites and passages: Guruji's birthdays; Sharath's wedding; the arrival of Shraddha and Sambhav; the passing of Sharath's father, Rangaswamy; etc... I remember clearly being at Pruthvi's (Shammi's son) Upanayana ceremony (receiving the Brahmin thread), and Guruji was on the stage, beaming, with his whole family there down to his great-grandchildren, and I thought to myself “that is strength… the power and unity of family”...
In terms of my own practice and teaching, having a lineage has always been a great well and resource to draw upon... Guruji was a yogi and a Sanskrit scholar, well-versed in both Hindu and yoga philosophies... his knowledge was vast... he would often quote from the Bhagavad Gita, Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, the Hatha Yoga Pradipika, the Vedas, the Upanishads, etc... just a little bit here and there, never going into it too much, almost just planting seeds, so that if we were interested, we could individually delve deeper into these subjects (and if we were lucky, a teacher would appear!)... whenever he answered questions or spoke about anything, it was always coming from his own direct life experience... and I think that is very crucial to remember... often these days, famous quotes of Guruji are lightly thrown around, with neither any context nor depth... but it is very important to remember why it was said, in which context it was said, and what Guruji was trying to convey or teach (of course, again what he said could be interpreted so differently, depending on the individual)... but for me, again, these were rare and beautiful gifts to be contemplated on (quite like zen koans) to go deeper into the practice and understanding of yoga, and to integrate into my life, from which my own practice and teachings could then continue to unfold…
Speaking of parampara, can you share your perspective as someone that has practiced with Guruji for a number of years and now with Sharath. What was the transition like for the practice as a whole and for you personally?
Well, I'm not sure I can answer what the transition has been like for the practice as a whole, but I can try to tell you how it has been for me personally…
I'd say the transition, in Mysore at least, had been set into motion long before Guruji's actual passing... as Guruji's health started to falter and his vital energy began to diminish, and as the number of students grew exponentially, Sharath's role in the shala and with the teaching increased... and Saraswati also came into the shala to assist... in June of 2007, I moved to Barcelona, Spain and started a Mysore-style program there, so I was more focused on that then, and spending less time in Mysore... because Guruji's physical presence had always been so massive, when news of his declining health started to circulate, I think most of us didn't think that his passing would be that imminent... so, when it did happen so quickly, it was both a surprise and a shock! I had already been invited to attend a special Teachers' course (the 1st of its kind) that they were going to hold in Mysore during June and July of 2009, so I was already scheduled to go there... Guruji passed on 18 May, 2009... I found about his passing from Pete, who was in Mysore at the time... and that morning I announced the news to my students before the opening mantra, and I just wept as we chanted it, feeling all of those times I had chanted it with Guruji in the past, very conscious of the mixture of overwhelming grief and gratitude... Pete was due to come to Barcelona to teach a 6 day Mysore-style workshop and when he arrived, his presence was so grounding... it was beautiful to just transform that energy of grief into more of a celebration of Guruji's life as we all reminisced and shared stories and memories…
On 31 May, 2009 there was a memorial ceremony held for Guruji in Mysore and hundreds of students, long-time and new, came from all over the world... it was beautiful and awe-inspiring to see the impact that Guruji and his teachings had had on so many people... and again, although there was grief and sorrow in his passing, it was also a great celebration in honoring his life and legacy... the Teachers' course of June – July 2009 went on as scheduled, and it was just a really special, intimate, sweet time with a group of 40 long-time practitioners to practice, share, process and let go... to grieve and to remember... during that course, the emphasis was not so much on the asanas; most of Sharath's teachings focused on reminding us to be good people, to do good things in our lives, to observe and practice the yamas and niyamas, and to honor the parampara, by teaching with integrity and in the tradition of Guruji... it was inspiring and renewed my commitment to really abide by that…
And just as I explained earlier about parampara and the guru–shishya tradition, this is how I practice and what the focus of my asana practice is... it is the physical discipline in which I can observe, nurture, cultivate, and practice the yamas and niyamas attentively towards myself in body, mind, and spirit and towards my teachers, but again WITHIN myself, and from there a very strong foundation develops in the honoring of the yamas and niyamas that then will permeate out to my relationship with everyone and everything in my life... again the practice of the yamas and niyamas is a lifelong practice... it is not enough to just be able to rattle them off superficially... there has to really be a deepening and blossoming... What is ahimsa? What is asteya? What is satya? What is brahmacharya? What is aparigraha? What is saucha? What is santosha? What is tapas? What is svadhyaya? What is ishvara pranidhana? And not just the textbook answer or what someone else has said... but, what is it really for me in my life experience... how do I observe it and practice it in body, mind, and spirit through thought, speech, and action... and that process is vast and endless... one has to be mindful that the yamas and niyamas come BEFORE asana on the 8-limbed Ashtanga Yoga path... Guruji often said that it was easier for Westerners to enter the practice through asana first, through the physical body as a starting point and as a vehicle for the practice of the yamas and niyamas... but it is also very important not to forget them entirely, because as he always stated: “asana practice without observance of the yamas and niyamas, is just bending the body”... furthermore, for anyone who was raised with a certain religious tradition, one can clearly see that the yamas and niyamas are really the universal core and precepts that exist in any spiritual faith and philosophy…
For me personally, I'd say that between 2007 and 2012, there was a lot of instability in all that I was observing surrounding Mysore, the teachings, and even the international Ashtanga Yoga community... in terms of parampara, there was no question in my mind and heart that Sharath was and is my teacher... in a sense he had already been so for so many years... one of the things that I loved and has always stood out for me about those early years of practice with Guruji and Sharath was their commitment and constancy to teaching (which in turn was transmitted to my practice)... without fail, day in day out, year-round, they would be there teaching... and that was so reassuring to me! And when I was not in Mysore, in those moments when I felt lonely or confused or bereft, it would give me great solace to think of Guruji and Sharath teaching there, and that I could go there whenever (there was no pre-registration process then)... and I admit that when I was not in Mysore, I had this very intense longing to be there, similar to what I have read in Sufism, when they speak of being separate from the Beloved (this was, admittedly, perhaps not that healthy, and was an attachment of sorts, which I have had to later work out and through)... so, for me, the transition has really been one of maturing and evolving, both in terms of practice but also in life... with my move to Barcelona and my focus on my shala there and later on my birth family searches, I really went very deeply inside, and disconnected slightly from what was happening with the international Ashtanga Yoga community, although little bits of information would still reach me now and then…
I continued to go to Mysore to practice with Sharath, but for shorter visits, and the energy there seemed to stabilise slowly... after I let go of my shala in 2013, I spent 7 months there (over 3 different trips) between 2013 and late 2014, and by that time Sharath seemed to fully embody his role of continuing the parampara… and I feel so blessed now to have had that time to ground myself so solidly in the practices with him again, because it prepared me in many ways for all that was to arise in my life later...
Any final thoughts?
Hahaha! Really there are so many, but I have gone on for far too long now!
But sitting here and writing this from my home in Barcelona, as we are coming up to Guru Purnima and as you are celebrating 4th of July today in the United States, and as I have been reflecting so much on my yoga journey, which has taken me to so many unimagined places, internally and externally, I am just filled with infinite gratitude towards everything: the whole of life... it is all so complex, and simultaneously simple, and such a mystery... I know that we are living in very uncertain and unstable times, and that there is a lot of suffering and despair in the world... both on the individual level, but also societal and global... it has always been so in the past and it will continue to be so in the future, and sometimes it will be felt more acutely than at others, as life continues to unfold and pass through it's cycles... life is impermanence…
Transformation and change are rife with fear, doubt, and instability as one faces the unknown, and it is through the practices and the breath that we can ground ourselves and find balance and stability... I'd say in a way, that Guruji's passing was and is his ultimate teaching... the one on impermanence and letting go to the unknown and surrendering to the present moment, accepting the here and now, as it is... because in many ways death is ultimately the greatest unknown... I feel like whenever anyone close to us passes away, we are reminded more acutely of mortality... there is a realization that the physical body is so limited; it is eventually going to deteriorate and decay and we are all going to cast it off at some point... so to focus on just the physical within the practice is so limiting... Guruji always used to emphasize that the Ashtanga practice is first and foremost a breathing practice... so, if we learn to be aware of our breath in every moment, through everything that happens to us in life, and really practice that consciously, then we will be very prepared when we have to exhale our last breath... we can live a fulfilled, peaceful life and then can also pass away content and peacefully... and as there is an opportunity to ponder mortality, there also arises the contemplation of immortality... that which never ceases to exist and continues to exist even after one has shed the physical body... in a way, Guruji is more alive now than ever, because he resides in the consciousness of so many more people as his teachings spread…
In these times that we are witnessing great divisiveness and polarization in so many communities and on multiple realms, I would like to remind us all to try to remember what connects us all... and again we have to turn inwards and return to our breath... because then we can come to realize that your breath is my breath, your pain is my pain, your joy is my joy... we all are so inter-connected, beyond what we can even really perceive... so, let us all treat each other with loving-kindness and mutual respect, which at times in itself can be a very, very difficult practice... Pete once said to me: “everyone in every moment is trying to do the best they can”... and although it was almost impossible to fathom then, I have really come to feel the truth in that... of course taking into consideration the whole of that being, within the entire context and circumstances, past and present, with all the influences, known and unknown, that have shaped and formed him or her... and with that vast perspective there is a lot more space for understanding, forgiveness, compassion, reconciliation, and unity…
I'd also just like to add that the surrendering to the present moment and accepting the here and now as it is, does not mean that one has to be complacent or to just stand by passively and do nothing as great injustices occur, either on the individual, societal, global, or universal levels, whether it be through corruption, exploitation, discrimination, prejudice, oppression, cruelty, or intolerance... action has to be taken... but I feel that real change must and can only start with oneself... and when one can make an individual transformation to being a healthy, good, whole person in mind, body, and spirit through thought, speech, and action, that will slowly and eventually have a positive and cumulative ripple effect to the whole of society, the world, and the universe…
I began the yoga path because of a great internal crisis, that I felt in many ways was imprisoning me, in both conscious, unconscious, and subconscious ways... and I was fascinated that both the yoga and Buddhist paths claimed to lead one to liberation and wholeness... and as I have journeyed on, I have had to continuously define, refine, and redefine for myself what liberation means to me personally, what I am imprisoned by, and what keeps me from wholeness and “seeing the divine everywhere”... and that is a very, very deep process and, for me, really has to do with consciousness and the mind... if we go to Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, from the very onset he lays it out before us in the 2nd sutra: yogas chitta vritti nirodhah, which is loosely translated as “the cessation of the fluctuations of the mind” (and he then continues to explain systematically and methodically what is meant by that and its process)... so, as I have turned more and more deeply inside through my different practices (and in certain ways my sitting practice has helped me immensely with this), I have become more and more attuned to what my personal “chitta vrittis” are: my deepest fears, doubts, pain, and suffering in my consciousness... which is not to be confused or limited to just the “mind”, but encompasses the whole being: the mind composed of the perceptions and feelings through the 6 sense organs, the intellect and thinking, judgment, memory and consciousness; the body in its all layers – physical, emotional, psychological, and energetic; and the spirit in its entirety - on all the different levels: conscious, unconscious and subconscious... and that has meant that I have had to turn and face my deepest fears, doubts, pain, and suffering and to become very intimate with them in order to understand them fully and embrace them, to then start to let them go... and this has been an ever-changing, and seemingly never-ending process, which has included going back to the very beginning of my life through my birth family searches and trying to piece together what I have had no conscious memory of... and that has been in many ways my most profound and darkest journey, but luckily has also taken me to so much lucidity and clarity... and ultimately to such immense gratitude and faith! Life is a miracle!
This infinite gratitude encompasses everyone and everything (positive, negative, and neutral in all their various tones and shades) that I have been blessed to come into contact with... I bow deeply to Guruji and Sharath and to all of my teachers and fellow practitioners in all of the traditions and lineages that I have been exposed to... thank you all (including those of you who are reading this) for accompanying me on this journey... I hope that this can serve to be of some benefit to you on yours... may we all be happy, healthy, peaceful and free from suffering... in mind, body, spirit, and consciousness... individually and collectively!
Thank you very much!
(As a final addendum, I would like to add a special thanks to Lu Duong for conducting this interview and for his patience... he first approached me about it 2 and a half years ago, which I declined at the time, because I had just met my birth mother, and was probably in one of the darkest moments of my life, and quite literally incapable of embarking on this interview, let alone communicating or articulating anything through it…
Initially when we recommenced a couple weeks ago, I was going to include details about my birth family search and reunions and that whole process in this interview, but then decided not to, even though it has been the most recent and integral part to my healing... but I feel it would make this interview far, far too long... however, if there is interest in it and if it can be of benefit to anyone in their own healing journey, I am open and happy to share about it at a later date... thank you so much!)
*Photos provided by Hojung
*Ashtanga Parampara thanks editorial co-pilot Lydia Teinfalt
*Ashtanga Parampara thanks editorial co-pilot Lydia Teinfalt
